spacer
Thrive logo
spacer
spacer Log in | spacer
corner spacer corner
spacer
spacer
corner browseissues corner
spacer
spacer
spacer
corner spacer corner
spacer
corner popularlinks corner
spacer
spacer
spacer
corner spacer corner
corner spacer corner
spacer
spacer
spacer
spacer
corner spacer corner
spacer
spacer
corner spacer corner
spacer

Can I Trust You?
By Jason Marsh

A conversation between world-renowned psychologist Paul Ekman and his daughter Eve, with Jason Marsh. The TV show Lie To Me was based on his research into detecting lies through facial expressions.

Growing up in San Francisco, a city renowned for its hedonism, Eve Ekman faced more than her fair share of temptations, especially when she got involved in the local punk scene as a teenager. Like most adolescents, she felt the urge to do some things she knew her parents wouldn’t approve of—go to clubs on weeknights, dabble with alcohol and marijuana—and which would require lying about where she was going and what she planned to do once she got there.

But unlike those other kids, Eve has a father who is one of the world’s leading experts on detecting lies. Paul Ekman, a professor emeritus at the University of California, San Francisco, pioneered the scientific study of facial expressions and body language. For more than 50 years, his research has identified how emotions are subtly expressed through nonverbal cues; for much of that time, he has devoted special attention to how and why people tell lies, and how others can catch those lies. His work has been used by police departments, teachers, and even the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. In 2001, the American Psychological Association named Ekman one of the most influential psychologists of the 20th century.

It sounds like every kid’s worst nightmare: the parent who always knows whether you’re telling the truth. But when it came down to it, Paul Ekman’s scientific expertise on lying was of limited usefulness to Paul Ekman the parent.

“I have been studying lying professionally for more than 20 years, but it was not easy to deal with it as a parent,” he writes in his 1989 book, Why Kids Lie: How Parents Can Encourage Truthfulness , which includes chapters by his wife, Mary Ann Mason, a professor and former dean at the University of California, Berkeley, and his son Tom, Eve’s older brother. Indeed, as that book makes clear, it is one thing to be able to catch a kid in a lie; it’s something very different to be able to raise a trustworthy child.

So how does an expert on lying, deception, and truthfulness try to foster trust and trustworthiness? Paul and Eve, who is now 28, recently sat down with Greater Good’s editor in chief, Jason Marsh, to discuss the benefits of trusting your kids (even when it’s nerve-wracking to do so), how to encourage trustworthy behavior, and what it takes to build trust between parents and children.
***

Eve Ekman: Do you ever remember catching me for anything when I broke your trust, or a time you caught me dead in a lie?

Paul Ekman: Nope. When I suspected that you had done something wrong, I went to some length to avoid putting you in a position where you would have to lie. Instead, when I was worried about you, I would ask leading questions like, “Is there something on your mind? Is there something you want to talk about?”

In that way, you had the opportunity to disclose on your own. I did not want to ask you every day if you had gotten into trouble, but there was a rule of disclosure. There were very few things I expected, but if you did not tell me, it was a lie.

I remember once, when I had heard you come in after curfew, I asked you, “What happened the other night? I heard you come in late.” So I was already telling you, “I know you did that,” without trying to catch you in a lie.

The issue clearly arises in every generation. I lied to my parents all the time. They were very restrictive, invading my privacy continuously. The challenge of my adolescence was learning how to outwit them, which I did. I had an entirely secret life.

Eve: So you are saying it is the nature of the relationship with the child that determines the role of trust and lying?

Paul: Yes, certainly so. The role of the parent is an extremely difficult one because you have to keep moving backwards. When parents start out, they are completely responsible for their child, who is totally helpless. As that child grows, you have to roll back, you have to grant control; otherwise, your child can’t grow. You have to be able to live with the fact that as you grant the child more autonomy, they will get into all sorts of trouble. But you ultimately have to leave it up to them.

Jason Marsh: It seems like this could be difficult advice to follow, to trust that much. What was it from your research, or personal experience, that motivated you to take this approach?

Paul: It wasn’t based on research, mine or anyone else’s. It was based on my own experience with parents who did just the opposite. They did everything they could to try to interfere with my life, and they were the last people I would have ever turned to when I was a child. I wanted to be the first person my kids would turn to.

It took some restraint, because worry was my middle name, way before I ever had a child. But I think, for children, the most important thing is to feel they can trust that their parents, whether they approve or disapprove, will always be available for help and support. If that’s not the case, then I think you’ve really failed as a parent.

Jason Marsh: Eve, what kind of effect do you think this kind of parenting style had on your behavior growing up, and on your feelings of trust toward your parents?

Eve: I was not your conventional good girl. But I definitely did not want to disappoint the trust they gave me, because I thought they were cool, and I liked them. They weren’t just authority figures; they were very open and available and accessible. And if I challenged what they did, they would explain it to me. It wasn’t like, “Because I said so.” There was always an explanation of why, and I guess that helped build trust. I always felt like, even in the worst case scenarios, they would be the first people I would call. Still, to this day, I call them first when I have trouble.

Paul: I remember the call from jail.

Eve: That was when I was arrested for protesting the war in Iraq.

Jason Marsh: Paul, do you think that by being so trusting, you not only earned the trust of your kids but also actually helped make them more trustworthy?

Paul: Yes. I didn’t want them to get started on my path of lying to my parents. Because I do believe that it’s a slippery slope: You start lying once, you lie another time, you lie about more things, and you’ve crossed the threshold. And I didn’t want to put them in a position where they would cross that threshold.

Eve: What kinds of difficulties do parents encounter even when they want to put this kind of trust in their kids?

Paul: A major difficulty is that so much changes from generation to generation. What was normative in one generation can shift greatly—changing sexual morality, recreational drugs. Parents have a hard time trusting that their kids are prepared to deal with these things that are so new to the parents.
Beyond that, there is the difficulty of giving up control. Many parents are control freaks, and that is in part because they do not want to worry. And in ways they are right to worry—adolescents take risks that are very dangerous.

Eve: But it starts before adolescence, right?

Paul: It starts at three to five years of age, and it gets really strong in adolescence.

The Dalai Lama asked me once, “What is destructive compassion?” And I said that destructive compassion is when you are so worried about your child that you over-control them.

Since I work in this area and think about this area, I try to be very explicit and never put anyone in the position where they feel they have to lie to me. If they think that I am going to be a strict disciplinarian, that will change the relationship as well. The major research I have done shows that the main reason people lie is to avoid being punished.

Jason Marsh: But it seems that a lot of parents feel caught in a Catch-22. They may understand why it’s important to trust their kids, but they may not feel that their kid is worthy of that trust. What can parents do to help encourage the kind of truthfulness in their kids that makes them more comfortable trusting those kids?

Paul: They can do things all the time—over the dining room table, with stories, when they’re playing Chutes and Ladders and kids get tempted to cheat in the game. I really think up to the age of 10 or 11, children are zealots for the truth—they really don’t want to mislead or be mislead. So you can build on that.

You can do it by example. When Eve was born, I quit smoking after I had smoked for 30 years. And I also decided I was going to try to see if I could lead my life without lying to anyone about anything. It was much harder to do that—to figure out ways to be truthful without being harmful or insulting, to stay polite but be truthful. And it became a real challenge. But I also thought, “I’m going to try to do this because that’s the example I want to be showing.” I want my kids to see that there’s a way to be truthful. It was very deliberate.

Parents also need to establish the rules of disclosure and the obligations that come with their trust. For instance, we always made very clear to both of our kids that if they got into trouble in school, they were obliged to tell us. So if they didn’t tell us, then they were lying to us. That meant we had to define “trouble.” Trouble meant they were held after school, or called to the principal’s office. That’s a rule of disclosure.

We need to spell out these rules and obligations in any relationship. In the business world, do you have to tell your employer if you’re looking for another job? Does your employer need to tell you if they’re thinking of cutting your position? What are the rules of disclosure? They’re never revealed. They’re kept ambiguous. That just makes for a lot of distrust and bad work relationships. Same in marriages. I have one colleague who told me, “My rule is that anything I do out of town is OK.” I said, “Does your spouse know that?” He never felt he needed to tell his spouse about it. There was no disclosure. It’s just the basis for misunderstanding and distrust.

Jason Marsh: Eve, do you think that growing up with those rules has affected your relationships with others, outside of your family?

Eve: It’s funny because as my dad was speaking, I was thinking about how I really do respect authority. Even though I think I’m a dissenter at heart, I definitely respect authority. You know, I’m afraid of getting caught, and that helps me not do things wrong. I was arrested once, but that was simply because I was protesting. Other than that, I’ve never broken the law. I’ve only gotten one ticket.

In general, I hope that when punishment is exacted, it’s fair and just, and I do think that was modeled to me from my family relationships. I think if there’s an inconsistent message, I could imagine feeling like, “Well, those laws don’t apply to me.”

And in my personal relationships with friends, as well as romantic relationships, I definitely think trust is core. I definitely know I’m someone people depend on. I’m a social worker, that’s my profession, but I also feel I’m the person who people call when things are really hard and they need someone they can trust. And I feel really respectful of that role, and I appreciate it.

I think you experience people’s family life through how they interact with you, and I feel like I’ve been the beneficiary of a great deal of trust, and I myself am trusting. But I’ve been burned. I remember talking with my dad about it at one point, like, “Why do I feel disappointed? I feel like I’m trusting, and I’m not sure that’s always met.” Like, in my early 20s, when I first started to have really meaningful and important relationships outside of family, I found there were some people for whom family wasn’t a model of trust and for whom learning trust was new. And so they would maybe play people off each other, do those kinds of things that ultimately will burn you.

Jason Marsh: So Paul, when you hear Eve talk about her ability to trust others and instill trust in others toward her, I wonder if you could step back and, putting on your psychologist’s hat, draw on some research to explain why that may be. How might the particular parenting style that you’ve practiced foster that trustworthiness over time? And perhaps even more importantly, what could be the negative consequences of not fostering that sense of trust and trustworthiness?

Paul: There are a lot of clinical reports of people who are commitment adverse and can’t trust others. Based on their reports of their childhood, it seems that this is often a result of how they were brought up. They found they couldn’t trust their parents because their parents broke their promises or their commitments. And unreliability can be very damaging.

When I was 13, I spent five weeks rehearsing to play a role in a Gilbert & Sullivan show, The Mikado, for one performance, which my parents missed by two hours. I never forgave them for that. That was very decisive for me, that unreliability. Something like that can make it quite a struggle for you to trust others. Quite a struggle.

But there’s been much less scientific attention given to the positive side: What does positive parental behavior that earns trust look like? What are its benefits? Psychologists study problems; we don’t study success. But I would expect just the reverse—that people who were trusting as children grow up being able to be trustworthy.

Jason Marsh: Some parents might try to earn their kids’ trust, but they might not exhibit trust toward their kids in return. What could be the consequences of not demonstrating trust toward your kids?

Paul: You have children who are either crippled by the over-controlling, micromanaging parent, or who become devious in order to get their freedom. They’ve got to grow, and they are increasingly capable of acting independently. So they’re going to find a way to do so, or you’re going to destroy them.

If they find a way to gain autonomy through deviousness, through gaming the system, that’s really a bad way to learn independence because once you learn how to deceive your parents, there’s a lot of temptation to do it with everybody else. That brings short-term gains and long-term losses. But if you’re the type who just goes from one relationship to another, then you may never realize what you’re losing—until you get late in your life and you feel you haven’t built anything.

Jason Marsh: Based on research and your own experience, is it possible for you to sum up what you believe is most important to raising kids who are both trusting and trustworthy?

Paul: The two are related. People who are distrustful are usually not very trustworthy themselves, and difficult to deal with.

You have a fundamental choice to make about how you’re going to lead your life: Are you going to be suspicious and risk disbelieving people who are truthful? Or are you going to be trusting and risk being misled? As a parent, you always need to be trusting and risk being mislead. Being wrongly accused is terrible. And it is less pleasant to live your life being suspicious all the time, unless you are a police investigator. And you do not need to be an investigator in your home.

Eve: Is there such as thing as too much trust?

Paul: No.

Eve: Really? Even when your kids are lying to you, and you know they’re lying to you?

Paul: There is no general rule.

Eve: I imagine people who read your book Why Kids Lie would want to be able to better catch their kids in lies.

Paul: But that absolutely was not my intention; my intention was to explain to parents why kids lie, not how to catch them in lies. There is nothing in the book that teaches how to detect lies. That is not your job as a parent to be the cop, to be the interrogator. You must be the teacher, or the model. You want to talk to your kids about the real costs of lying. The real cost is not being trusted. If you are not trusted, it makes all intimate relationships impossible.

Eve: I did trust you and always felt you had my best intentions in mind. I sometimes felt that I knew how to take care of myself more than you could give me credit for, but I think that is a pretty natural part of growing up and wanting full freedom.

To this day, I think that trust is present in my everyday thinking. When I am making a hard or risky decision, I think, “What would my parents think?”

Paul: Having had parents who made every mistake you could make—they were good models of what not to do.

Eve: So, do you trust me?

Paul: Of course.

This article originally appeared in Greater Good, the online magazine published by UC Berkeley’s Greater Good Science Center.  http://greatergood.berkeley.edu

Jason Marsh Bio:

Jason Marsh is the editor in chief of Greater Good, the online magazine published by UC Berkeley’s Greater Good Science Center. He is also a co-editor of two anthologies of Greater Good articles: The Compassionate Instinct (WW Norton, 2010) and Are We Born Racist? (Beacon Press, 2010) Previously, he was the managing editor of the political journal The Responsive Community; he has also worked as a reporter and producer at KQED Public Radio in San Francisco, as a documentary producer, and as a kindergarten teacher. His first documentary, Unschooled, debuted at the Big Sky Documentary Film Festival.

Back to Stories

spacer
COMMENT (1) | communication, parenting, trust
spacer

Comments

One Response to “Can I Trust You?”

  1. Rose Winnipeg Manitoba
    May 2nd, 2012 @ 5:44 pm

    Interesting interview and a reminder as to how important communication and trust are, especially within the family.

Leave a Reply





spacer
spacer
spacer
spacer
spacer
corner spacer corner
spacer
corner spacer corner
spacer
newsletter
spacer
spacer
spacer
corner spacer corner
spacer
corner comments corner
spacer

    Mike

    My wife is an alcoholic she drinks liquor from the time she gets up until the the liquor store closes.im at the crossroa...
    April

    I have been married to my alcoholic husband for 11 years but we have been together for the last 19 years. We met at a ve...
    Tina

    I have been married for 22 years. Both my husband and I were casual drinkers. As the years went by we began drinking m...
    Amy Weisenburger

    What a beautiful message!! My fur-babies, soulmates gave my life tremendous purpose and meaning. Their paw print...
    Frank Sterle Jr.

    Whenever I observe stress in the facial expression of my mother, a typical senior, I also observe how that stress drains...
    Kim

    This was an excellent blog. I have been with my alcoholic husband for 15 years. I felt like I was losing my mind with th...
    Alice

    Helping someone with this issue is hard. And even more if you love him. I know that very well. We struggled with it for ...
    Union Alarm

    The best way is to leave such a person as it is not worth making your life miserable with such a person. I know this as ...
    Nancy Flora

    I think what you mean is a non-drinking member of an alcoholic family. Alcoholism is a family disease. Just as your husb...
    Amanda

    The family is waking up Sunday AM and my alcoholic husband again makes another nasty comment to me. The things he has sa...
    Angel

    I learned how to detach from my drunk husband! Than my mother passed away. All gloves were off after that. My son gradua...
    Lorraine

    Married thirty seven and a half years to an alcoholic. But he is a good person. And he does good deeds for everyone neig...
    jw

    I have been with my husband twenty one years. We have three children together, ages 5,7, and 9. He is a functioning alco...
    Richard Berman

    A emotional story well written with bright eye ups and sad eye downs. A story I could relate to. My grandparents would...
    Gina

    Love this. Just what I needed to read. Thank you for your courage to share this....
    Tired

    I am struggling with detaching, but still trying. I have been with my other half off and on for 5 years. The offs were...
    Debra Grossman

    Thank you for sharing this beautiful story. It nourishes my soul to learn of such special friendships. We humans must ...
    Jack russell

    Really enjoyed reading the website. I have also have a website about this great dog....


    Thank God for your blog. After 37 years of being married to an alcoholic,I've finally reached my breaking point. Emotion...


    Thanx 4 da truth...
    Sandra

    I am from USA, i am 36 years old, i want to gladly give My testimony of how a spell caster dr.mac@yahoo. com brought bac...
    g

    Thank you for your words. As I navigate through marriage with children (11, 5, 3) and I am a stay at home mom, the idea ...
    Catherine Ellen Pettway

    My husband and I married in 1988. He occasionally drank beer but not everyday. He came from a long history of alcoholics...
    Nic

    Thank you Mike for your honesty and vulnerability. It helps to feel a connection with someone who understands the enduri...
    Robert Goldsmith

    Thank you for sharing that very intimate experience and your story. I'm married to an alcoholic and am having severe pro...
    MANDI

    Is this group still going? I love my husband and I knew what I was getting into when I married him. I knew he like to dr...
    Kelly

    Dear Keith, I hope you are at peace now. You are missed by many....
    Delilah Campos

    Dear LaVora, Thank you so much for sharing this intimate experience. I am deeply touched and encouraged by your experie...
    Mary Ellen Bennett

    Thank you so much. I am married to an alcoholic and I have watched him go through rehabilitation and relapse many times....
    Tracy

    Thank you for sharing your story with me Ivor. I'm so glad you had a loving supportive Aunt to guide you out from beneat...
    Daniel Fontana

    I know those kids,especially Snezana.Please send me their contact information....
    Neyhaaa

    I can't thank you enough for sharing this. Yet, thank you....
    Amy

    My daughter is five and her dad is an alcoholic. I know we need to leave. We both own our house and I can't afford a law...
    CPC

    I think this is among the such a lot important info for me. And i'm happy studying your article. However want to statem...
    online festival

    Every year, people in India find different ways to celebrate the same festival, and perhaps this adds new dimension to...
    Karol

    Listening to all the mother's on here is overwhelming for me. I think about what all of you are going through and I can ...
    Vicki Osheka

    This is my second marriage and I came from a non drinking family. Didn't realize what I was getting into when I married...
    Elle

    Wel written article. My husband is walking around totally beligerant. Where he ends up making messes, he has snowballed ...
    Maren

    Thank you for this! 3rd day on Cipralex and a glimmer of hope....


    I 'gave in' recently. I am more hopeful than ever that things will improve for me after reading this article. It is insp...
    LindaJane Riley

    I apologize to everyone who has commented. I didn't know this story was still active. I would like to invite all of ...
    Rahulbh28

    Dear Members, Please help me. . . I'm sharing my painful moments which my brother and my family members are undergoing ...
    rene

    Yes i too lived the nightmare for 45 yrs..when in my marriage the last. 10 yrs my alcoholic lived in the same house and ...
    Grace

    I typed in Google search, overcoming childhood loneliness because I am paying attention to some habits that I have been ...
    Casadina

    I am so thankful that I found this website. I am like others on here and my alcoholic is passed out snoring again. This ...
    Grateful

    I cannot express how much I appreciate your story. I have been with my alcoholic for 11 years and I do not even know my...
    Vic

    I stumbled upon this beautifully written article because I just "gave in" today. I just picked up my perscription of cir...
    Carol

    I have recently begun to admit that my husband is an alcoholic. My heart is broken... I am pissed... I have so many emot...
    TJ

    Thank you for this article. You are the first person who seems to understand why I am still married to an alcoholic. I...
    sariah

    I wept as I read your story. I am currently learning to detach as well after 20 years of marriage to an alcoholic. Leavi...
    LaVora

    Good luck, N. My experience may not be yours. However, I deeply believe that happiness is our birthright. You deserve th...
    nk

    Lavora, I am exactly here in my marriage - trying to turn it around. Rgds, N...
    Suzanne

    Hi Martin and Cathy. Watched your documentary. You are a wonderful family. Everyone has their struggles, no one is exemp...
    admin

    Thank you for letting us know. The link is now set to the their new WEB page. We have our dog from them....
    Linda Jane Riley

    About a year ago I was forced to take a step back from all things related to alcoholism. My husband, Riley, was not drin...
    SHerry

    Your link to the rescue adoption site is for sale with no other info on the dogs....
    Karen Rago

    I think that Jesse is the most adorable jack Russell terrier dog I love watching his videos to...
    Marleen

    Thank you for sharing your story! That's real inspirating!...
    Julie

    Its 4:50am here. I can hear him snoring in the nursery. I brought the baby to bed with me.. He only snores when he drink...
    ld

    I thought I was suffering alone. The advice and comments make me feel better and gives me the strength to go on. Keep th...
    Sam

    Hi Mike, Very poignant, "There are no grown-ups. We are all children in adult garments" is right on the mark. Sufferi...
    TJ

    Thank You!!! Like "judy" commented above my mind was racing and I felt out of control... My life seemed to be falling a...
    Karunakaran

    It's very nice....
    judy

    Thanks for ur writings... it really help my mind to calm down.... where can i go to talk with alot of nonalcoholics??? N...
    Tanya Sousa

    We certainly do have to change the way we respond, don't we Paul? I'm encouraged though. I do see it happening -- althou...
    Paul Trainer

    Thank you, Tanya, this is all so true. As someone who adores starlings too, I know that it is only when you take the tim...
    Cathy

    In reading I see how difficult it is to be married to an alcoholic husband for 30 years and have now discovered that if ...
    carrir

    You took the words right out of my mouth. Xoxo...
    ceri

    What an amazing story of love between step son and step father...
    Caney Texas

    Hello! I've been reading your site for some time now and finally got the bravery to go ahead and give you a shout out fr...
    julie

    what a wonderful article, she described me to a tee , it was nice to put words to the feelings , I am new to cipralex bu...
    michele

    I am hurting so badly right now, it is taking all the strength and coping ability I have just to get through the day! O...
    denise morini

    PLEASE understand that I do not feel redeemed......still...........getting Lexi DID NOT make up for what I did to Jack, ...
    Carleen Quesenberry

    Denise- It is perplexing that you would write a "feel good" story after you abandoned a dog due to your failure to trai...
    Jon

    While I love the article, I caution those reading the post by "finally AM, me." I was in a relationship for 12 years to...
    Wendy Noer

    I felt like I was there, good story Melodee, keep writing. Let me know when you finish another one....


    thank you...
    Sandi

    This is great, Mel! Congratulations! I hope to see more of your writings - especially the novel you're working on......
    Katie

    My name is Katie. I'm 40. I have only visited your website, haven't purchased your book yet. I've been diagnosed bi-...
    Kaylee

    Your story helped convince me to start retaking my cipralex! Thank you!...
    gautam khanal

    Love actually does not have any boundary of Cast,Religion,Profile,Species,Class etc........
    Nayanna Chakrbarty

    Dear Kalpana, Thank you for your kind wishes. I do agree with you, when you think you are all alone that's when He ma...
    Kalpana

    Dear Nayanna, It' such a pleasure reading your experiences with Ganapthi (as I call him). He is so close to my heart ...
    Haley

    Made my day we have no reason to complain bout anything...
    Melissa

    Sorry typo , thank you again ......
    Melissa

    Thank you , LindaJane; I will consider joining. Thank you against for your response .. Be well Melissa...
    Linda J Riley

    UPDATE -- Since I wrote this story, I have created several support groups: Two on Facebook and one on an independent sit...
    Melissa

    For 20 years that had been my life! This last time was so bad , he attacked me then choked his 19 year old twin daughter...
    Steve Sumii

    Joe, What a beautiful story. I visualized the whole story. The ending where you walk with your dad was especially moving...
    JW

    The story now the subject of a documentary aired on Knowledge Network. Video can be seen online at: http://knowled...
    http://tinyurl.com/kovalane39421

    I really would like to book mark this blog, “Turning Trash Into Beauty – Kat Nicotera’s Unique Art Therapy | Thri...
    joybells

    wow. i am going through the same journey! thanks for helping me & assisting me with that journey!...
    Noelle Sterne

    Fangfang-- You have been blessed with a husband and parents who understand that nothing is wasted. And you have learn...
    Fangfang

    Wow ... what a strong and passionate article!! Really?? Nothing is wasted?? I am feeling like I have wasted my life for...
    Pushpa Rawat

    sooo lovely and feel of very true friendship forever...
    Tanya Sousa

    Hi Diane! I'm so glad you enjoyed it. I was so blessed to have her in my life AND to have the parents I had. Also, gr...
    Joyce

    Billie, I found your story very interesting and well-written. Some people would have been judgemental about the conditio...
    Diane

    Shiri, your article is very interesting and brought tears to my eyes. I have been a dog parent/companion to many wonder...
    Diane Schachter

    Tanya, I so enjoyed reading the story of your dog sister. I love how you describe your adventures and relationship with...
    Acamea

    Thank you James. :-)...
spacer
corner spacer corner
spacer
Copyright 2010 thriveinlife.ca. All rights reserved. | Privacy Statement
spacer
spacer